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Bergbau, Minen
#1
Notiz 

Bergbau, Minen

Hat jemand Ahnung bezüglich RIO oder BHP.
Wie sieht deren Kerngeschäft aus?
Habe da einen dunklen Fleck  Bang

Besitzen die die meisten Minen selbst oder zahlen sie royalties?
Was habt Ihr sonst für Minen im Depot?

Danke.
#2
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

(06.12.2019, 17:13)Ventura schrieb: Hat jemand Ahnung bezüglich RIO oder BHP.
Wie sieht deren Kerngeschäft aus?
Habe da einen dunklen Fleck  Bang

Besitzen die die meisten Minen selbst oder zahlen sie royalties?
Was habt Ihr sonst für Minen im Depot?

Danke.
Barrick Gold.
#3
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

(06.12.2019, 17:13)Ventura schrieb: Hat jemand Ahnung bezüglich RIO oder BHP.
Wie sieht deren Kerngeschäft aus?
Habe da einen dunklen Fleck  Bang

Besitzen die die meisten Minen selbst oder zahlen sie royalties?
Was habt Ihr sonst für Minen im Depot?

Danke.
Commodity Prospects Of Rio Tinto Versus BHP Billito

Wer Zugang hat , hier:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4246245...p-billiton

While similar, BHP and RIO differ in their details

With the companies being so similar, it can be somewhat of a challenge to differentiate between BHP and RIO to determine which of the two has better prospects. One way to do so would be to look at the future prospects of the commodities that BHP and RIO mine to find out where the stock of the two companies are likely to go. We would then be able to make a guess as to which of the two is more likely to outperform the other going forward.
BHP




Segment
Gross Revenue
EBITDA
Underlying EBITDA
margins
Produced
Iron ore
$14.8B
$8.9B
61%
238mt iron ore
Copper
$13.3B
$6.5B
54%
1753kt copper
Petroleum
$5.4B
$3.3B
62%
120MMboe
Coal
$8.9B
$4.4B
49%
72mt coal
Other
$1.2B
($7M)


Total
$43.6B
$23.1B


Source: BHP
Rio Tinto




Segment
Gross revenue
EBITDA
Underlying EBITDA margins
Produced
Iron ore
$18.5B
$11.3B
68%
337.8mt iron ore
Aluminum
$12.2B
$3.1B
32%
50.4mt bauxite




3458kt aluminum
Copper & diamonds
$6.5B
$2.8B
43%
534kt copper
Energy & minerals
$5.7B
$2.2B
38%
1116kt titanium dioxide




8952kt iron ore pellets
Operations

($70M)


Other

($1173M)


Total
$40.5B
$18.1B


Source: Rio Tinto
Iron ore is the true money maker for both BHP and RIO
Both BHP and RIO mine a diverse set of commodities, which all contribute to revenue and EBITDA. However, out of all the commodities involved, iron ore is clearly head and shoulders above the rest in term of importance for both BHP and RIO. For BHP, iron ore made up 33.9% of revenue and 38.5% of EBITDA. RIO is even more dependent with 45.7% and 62.4% respectively.
The advantage that RIO has over BHP is that the mining of iron ore is a highly profitable business and it produces far more of it than BHP. Not only does RIO produce 100mt iron ore more than BHP, its margins at 68% is the highest of all segments at either company. The disadvantage is that RIO is not as diversified as BHP even though its array of commodities produced is greater.
Note that the Energy and Minerals segment includes titanium dioxide, rutile, zircon, borates, iron ore concentrate and pellets, salt and uranium. Yet despite RIO having so many different types of products available, it is iron ore that carries the main burden. RIO could therefore be very vulnerable if iron ore experiences a major downturn. Iron ore looks good right now and prices have increased in 2019, primarily due to supply disruptions in Brazil.

Iron ore actually relies heavily on demand from just one country, China. In fact, both BHP and RIO derive much of their revenue from China. So far, demand for iron ore remains steady and so have prices. Increased production of low-cost iron ore continues to replace high-cost iron ore, which works in RIO’s favor since it supplies higher grade iron ore at very low cost.
As long as China’s demand remains solid, iron ore should remain a steady source of income for BHP and RIO. For 2019 RIO expects to increase production with 338 to 350 million tons of iron ore from Pilbara. Unit cash costs are forecasts to come in at $13 to $14 per ton. The introduction of tariffs on steel is not expected to have any significant impact.
BHP


Country
Revenue
Share
China
$22.94B
52.6%
Japan
$4.71B
10.8%
North America
$2.72B
6.2%
South Korea
$2.64B
6.0%
Others
$10.63B
24.4%
Total
$43.64B




RIO


Country
Revenue

China
$18.06B
44.6%
United States
$6.28B
15.5%
Asia (excl China & Japan)
$4.67B
11.5%
Japan
$3,87B
9.6%
Others
$7.64B
18.9%
Total
$40.52B

Aluminum lowers overall margins for RIO
While RIO may have the highest margins with iron ore, it also has the lowest margins with aluminum at 32%. This is significant since aluminum contributes $12.2B or 30.1% of total revenue, but adds only $3.1B or 17.1% of total EBITDA. Compare the numbers for aluminum to those of iron ore and it is fair to say that aluminum is a drag on overall results for RIO.
The market for bauxite, from which aluminum is produced, continues to experience volatility and uncertainty. The country of Guinea has by far the world’s largest reserves of bauxite, estimated at one third and up to one half of all global reserves. Guinea is now rapidly expanding the supply of bauxite with heavy investment from China. This could weigh on prices of bauxite and aluminum even if the outlook remains positive.
Meanwhile, BHP is not in the aluminum business and does not suffer from its relatively low margins. In fact, BHP segment margins are all fairly high with nothing less than 49%. While BHP may not have as many products available, they have better margins than those of RIO with the exception of iron ore. From that standpoint, one could argue that BHP has a stronger portfolio compared to RIO.

[b]BHP has the edge in copper over RIO[/b]
BHP’s second most important product is copper, which adds $13.3B or 30.5% of revenue and $6.5B or 28.1% of EBITDA. Copper is not as significant for RIO with less contribution to revenue and EBITDA. Not surprising because RIO only produced 534kt of copper when BHP produced more than three times as much at 1753kt. RIO’s margins are also lower compared to those of BHP.
Market prospects for copper are quite good with demand steadily growing. The copper supply deficit in recent years is forecast to continue for the next several years. Longer term, the outlook for copper remains bright with the proliferation of electric vehicles ensuring demand for copper. This should work in BHP’s favor with its much greater exposure to the copper market compared to RIO.
Fossil fuels like coal and oil are the difference between BHP and RIO
The big difference between BHP and RIO is that the latter now has no presence in the fossil fuels business with the conclusion of the sale of its coal assets in 2018. On the other hand, BHP continues to have a heavy presence with petroleum and coal. These two segments combined contributed $14.3B or 32.8% of revenue and $7.7B or 33.3% of EBITDA.
Both oil and coal face murky prospects. While oil prices have rallied in 2019, they experienced great volatility last year. For example, oil fell from $85 in early October to roughly $50 12 weeks later in late December, which represents a 40% drop in price. Liquefied natural gas looks better, but much of its recent rise is due to the explosive rise in demand from China. If China falls, so could LNG.
[img=640x0]https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2019/3/3/5933791-15516389861650984.jpg[/img]
Meanwhile, coal is experiencing its own problems. There are indications that China is restricting the import of coal from Australia, which could affect BHP if it is not just a temporary measure. Coal still contributes $8.9B or 20.4% of revenue and $4.4B or 19% of EBITDA. On the other hand, RIO could have dodged the bullet with its timely disposal of its coal assets.

With so much uncertainty hanging over the coal and oil sector, it’s hard to predict what impact they will have. But if there is to be a difference maker between BHP and RIO, then it is most likely to be the energy sector. That’s because, regardless of which way energy prices go, they will have completely opposite effects on BHP and RIO.
High energy prices are good for BHP because of its petroleum and coal business. However, RIO would be negatively impacted because expensive energy will hit margins. Take the aluminum segment for example. The process of turning bauxite into aluminum is extremely energy intensive. The more RIO has to pay for energy, the less profit it makes.
But low energy prices would have the opposite effect. In this case, BHP would earn less from low prices for its petroleum and coal. But RIO would benefit from low prices by decreasing its cost of production and boosting its margins. Clearly, the interests of BHP and RIO in the energy sector are diametrically opposed. One likes low energy prices, the other not so much.
BHP is more likely to surprise than RIO, but it's also more likely to disappoint
Out of all the commodities BHP and RIO are involved with, iron ore and copper are the two most important. The supply of copper remains tight and new iron ore mines need heavy investment and time to become operational. This reduces the possibility of new competition arriving that could threaten the cash cow of BHP and RIO in the near term.
Prospects in both are good for BHP and RIO. However, this is assuming that demand from China, the biggest consumer of both iron ore and copper, holds up. If it does not, then both BHP and RIO will come under pressure. Both companies have benefited from the ongoing trade talks between the U.S. and China. But if the trade war intensifies, then BHP and RIO will feel the effects, especially with the two up by as much as they have in 2019.
Compared to BHP, RIO’s prospects are clearer and less clouded by uncertainty. Its iron ore business is a true crown jewel that should help RIO deliver to its shareholders, including a special dividend. The main concern with RIO is that China experiences a hard landing and commodity demand falls off, possibly because of the trade war. But otherwise, RIO’s prospects look fairly stable. Especially with RIO not involved in the dam disasters that have swept up its two main competitors in iron ore.

Unlike RIO, BHP faces a more uncertain future. It could be better than RIO, but it could also be worse. The wildcard is what happens in the energy sector, whether it is crude oil, liquefied natural gas or coal. Whatever happens here could determine whether BHP outperforms RIO or whether BHP disappoints its shareholders. A possible widespread ban on coal from Australia by China is reason to be concerned at BHP. While demand is all right at the moment, coal faces the global long-term trend of moving to cleaner sources of energy.
At the moment, there is a tug of war between suppliers of crude oil. On the one hand, OPEC and Russia want to limit supplies to boost oil prices. But on the other hand you have suppliers like shale oil in the U.S. who want to jack up production as much as possible, which will drive down oil prices. Depending on which camp wins out could ultimately determine the performance of BHP relative to RIO.
[img=640x0]https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2019/3/3/5933791-15516366197229626.jpg[/img]
Source: Wikimedia Commons


[b]Disclosure:[/b] I/we have no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours. I wrote this article myself, and it expresses my own opinions. I am not receiving compensation for it (other than from Seeking Alpha). I have no business relationship with any company
#4
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

(06.12.2019, 20:40)muchmoney schrieb: Barrick Gold.

Die habe ich schon.
Danke.
#5
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

(06.12.2019, 21:05)qqqq4 schrieb: Commodity Prospects Of Rio Tinto Versus BHP Billito

Wer Zugang hat , hier:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4246245...p-billiton

While similar, BHP and RIO differ in their details

Danke.
Mich interessiert noch, was denen gehört und wie viel Pacht die Zahlen?
#6

RE: Bergbau, Minen

RIO

https://www.riotinto.com/investors/taxes...22105.aspx
#7
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

(06.12.2019, 17:13)Ventura schrieb: Was habt Ihr sonst für Minen im Depot?

halte weder BHP noch Rio noch Glencore
sondern nur Goldminen

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GDX/
#8
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

Ich halte sowohl Rio als auch Gold- und Silberminen.
#9

RE: Bergbau, Minen

Falls ihr mal selbst zur Schaufel greifen wollt:

KLONDIKE-GOLDMINE (87 CLAIMS AUF 570 HA) MIT ABBAUERLAUBNIS

https://www.dmax-shop.de/clear-creek-klo...-4716.html

Die Mine umfasst 87 Claims mit insgesamt ca. 570 ha das entspricht 5,7 Millionen Quadratmetern. Clear Creek liegt ca. 80 min von Dawson City am Klondike Highway, die bewirtschaftete Moose Creek Lodge ist nur 20 min entfernt. Es handelt sich um Virgin Land, also Land auf dem noch nie Gold abgebaut wurde.


Und einen 20% Gutschein gibt es auch noch.

__________________
"Die Wahrheit ist wie Poesie. Und die meisten Leute hassen Poesie." (The Big Short)
#10
Notiz 

RE: Bergbau, Minen

(07.12.2019, 16:21)Moc schrieb: Ich halte sowohl Rio als auch Gold- und Silberminen.

Was sagt Deine Bank zur Versteuerung der Dividende bezüglich RIO?


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